Did Jay Thomas Get Fired From Cheers Because He Insulted His Co-Star Rhea Perlman?

Here is the latest in a series of examinations into urban legends about TV and whether they are true or false. Click here to view an archive of the TV urban legends featured so far.

TV URBAN LEGEND: Jay Thomas’s character on Cheers was killed off because he called Rhea Perlman ugly.

While obviously one of the most amazing things that can happen to an actor working in television is to be part of a show that turns out to be a major hit (look at the ways that, say, the cast of Friends went from an assortment of mostly no-names and “Hey, that’s the girl from the Bruce Springsteeen video!” to global superstars), there is something that is almost more amazing, which is to join one of these shows after it has become a hit and become accepted as part of the show’s DNA. It is very difficult to work your way into a hit TV show after it has become a hit. All the leads from Friends in its final season were the same as in their first season. Same with Seinfeld. A very notable exception to this rule was Cheers. The show, about a bar in Boston, lost one of its main characters after the third season when Nicholas Colasanto (who played the beloved old bartender “Coach”) passed away. He was replaced by a young hayseed bartender named Woody Boys, played by Woody Harrelson (amazingly enough, the character was named Woody before they cast Harrelson!), who improbably became even more popular than Coach! Even before Coach’s departure, the show had introduced a wrench into the show’s main romantic relationship between bar owner Sam Malone and uptight bar waitress Diane Chambers. Originally intended for just a short story arc as Diane’s new boyfriend, Kelsey Grammer’s Frasier Crane ended up sticking with the show for the rest of its run (plus eleven more seasons in his own spin-off series). Later, Bebe Neuwirth joined the cast as Frasier’s wife, Lilith. Finally, and most importantly, Kirstie Alley successfully replaced the female lead, Shelley Long (who played Diane) after season five. The show actually aired longer without its first female lead than it did with her, a remarkable achievement for any television show. So Cheers had clearly established itself as a series where notable characters could be added to the ensemble. That is exactly what it looked like what was going to happen with Jay Thomas’ character, Eddie LeBec, who joined the show in Season 5 as the boyfriend to Rhea Perlman’s character, the perpetually pregnant bar waitress Carla. In Season 6, they got married and it seemed like Thomas would be sticking around.

Instead, his character was killed off off screen in Season 8. As it turns out, it appears that Thomas’s own big mouth got himself kicked off of the show.

Jay Thomas was a popular radio personality for years before he began to get acting opportunities on television. He was on the cast of Mork and Mindy for a time (twenty episodes in total between 1979 and 1981). He has a few small roles during the early 1980s, popping up on big shows like Family Ties and The Golden Girls and in 1987 (in the middle of Season 5) he joined Cheers as Boston Bruins goalie Eddie LeBec. Season 6 saw the show change dramatically with the addition of the aforementioned Kirstie Alley, and in that season, LeBec and Carla got married early in the season. It seemed like Thomas was going to become a regular character. Instead, Thomas is sent off to perform in an ice show, making only two appearances in Season 7 after seven appearances in Season 6. Eddie is killed off (off screen) in Season 8′s “Death Takes a Holiday on Ice,” where we also learn that he was married to another woman (Thomas Haden Church, right before he was cast on Wings, was the bearer of the bad news about the other woman).

Now obviously, when you have a cast as large as Cheers, while they were able to add characters more easily than other shows, it was still not an easy thing to do, so there were plenty of reasons why the show would not be willing to add Jay Thomas to the actual cast. However, I think it is fair to say that a leading cause in Thomas’ dismissal from the program had to do with comments he made on his radio program (Thomas still kept his disc jockey job even while acting). When asked about kissing Carla on Cheers, Thomas noted that he received combat’s pay for doing so. Soon after, rather than being added as a cast member like Bebe Neuwirth (who also made recurring appearances in Season 6 and 7 as the spouse of one of the other characters on the show before being officially added to the cast in Season 8) Thomas was done for good. Thomas recalled:

I’m doing Cheers, having the greatest time of my life, and one day I get a phone call from Jimmy. I knew they were deciding [about] whether to add me or Bebe to the cast full-time, and I thought he was calling with good news. He said, like in a movie, “Are you sitting down?” And he goes, “Look, we’re not going to have you back on the show. And it has nothing to do with Rhea.

Here is where things get a bit disputed. Jay Thomas has been telling the story for years. However, that’s not exactly the best source, as people always tend to come up with reasons for why they did not get a particular job. Sometimes they are true but sometimes it is a matter of wishful thinking and they didn’t get the job for other, more traditional reasons (the actor wasn’t good enough for the role, there wasn’t enough money in the budget to add another regular, etc.). Heck, note that in the quote above, Thomas even says they specifically told him Rhea was not the reason. In addition, Rhea Perlman denies the story, saying:

That’s not true. I loved Jay Thomas as Eddie LeBec. But there was a point where they [thought] maybe we would live together, and I didn’t like the idea of Carla being with somebody because that would make you feel like [you're] not part of the people in the bar.

A reasonable enough reply, right?

So why do I lean towards it being true? Well, Ken Levine, longtime TV comedy writer, producer and creative consultant on Cheers at the time, backs up Thomas’ version of events, noting:

Rhea came up to my office and she was furious—I’d never seen her like this. She said, “I want him off the show.”

In addition, Levine wrote about the incident on his amazing blog here, explaining how he came up with the episode where they killed Eddie off.

I just don’t see any reason for why Levine would make up such a story. Thomas, certainly. Levine, though? I don’t see it, so I’m willing to believe that, at the very least, Thomas’ insult of Perlman was at least a notable cause in his removal from the show.

In addition, as some commenters have noted, in other tellings of the story (including on the Howard Stern Show), Thomas makes it clear that his insults of Perlman became a bit of a recurring bit during his radio work, so it is likely that it was not just one offhand comment that irked her but a SERIES of insults. A lot more reasonable, no?

Thomas went on to have a recurring role on Murphy Brown and then a starring role on the sitcom Love and War (from Murphy Brown creator Diane English). He’s acted here and there ever since (including a memorable supporting role in Mr. Holland’s Opus).

Here’s an amusing post-script. For the 200th Episode of Cheers panel discussion that aired in Season 9, Thomas attended the discussion and heckled the cast and crew (presumably as a joke) over being written off the show.

The legend is…

STATUS: I’m Going With True

Feel free (heck, I implore you!) to write in with your suggestions for future installments! My e-mail address is bcronin@legendsrevealed.com.

4 Responses to “Did Jay Thomas Get Fired From Cheers Because He Insulted His Co-Star Rhea Perlman?”

  1. I can actually think of two other shows that lasted more years after the lead actress left. One of them, Love and War, actually starred Jay Thomas. His original leading lady, Susan Day, was fired (or left, I’m not sure) after the first season, and she was replaced by Annie Potts. The show lasted a couple of seasons after that.

    The other show was Valarie (later renamed Valarie’s Family and then The Hogan Family), and she was not only the female lead, but the title character. The show’s original star, Valarie Harper, was fired due to conflicts with the show’s producers before the start of the third season, and the character was killed off (though her death was played with a lot more respect than Eddie’s on Cheers). The show continued for another 3 years with Sandy Duncan as the female lead.

    As for your assertion that changes in the cast of a long running show after it becomes popular being rare…I think Friends and Seinfeld are the exception rather than Cheers. Look at The Andy Griffith Show, M*A*S*H, Happy Days, Three’s Company, NYPD Blue, CSI, and House…to name a few. All had major character additions and subtractions after they became popular.

  2. Bouncing Boy… it’s a complex issue. Sure lots of shows go on after cast changes, but many, many more don’t have (major) changes at all. And a lot of shows do die off after major case changes (although whether it’s the change or the time on air (as it usually happens later in the series) that killed the show is always up for debate.) Other factors are important. Ensemble shows can whether character changes better than character-centered shows. The definition of what makes a major character in a show is another issue. It could be argued that anyone who wasn’t House wasn’t a major character in House.
    I do think that shows that last beyond 7 season are far more likely to have sucessful major cast changes than to not prior to season 7 than to not. But none of that changes the fact that Jay could have been added to the cast safely (whether it’s common for shows or just because Cheers is a special case) or wasn’t.
    More to the point, he was a minor character being added and even Friends and Seinfeld had those (Gunther and Newman, for example).

  3. “Law & Order” went on NBC for 20 years. However, it had no original cast members in its last season. The first cast change was after season one, when George Dzundza left. He was replaced by Paul Sorvino, who stayed with the show just a year and a half. That paved the way for Jerry Orbach’s legendary Lennie Briscoe, who stayed for 12 seasons. The show’s last cast change was in the middle of season 18, when Anthony Anderson replaced Jesse Martin. Since “Law & Order” was story-, and not actor-driven, it weathered all cast changes well. The other shows in the “Law & Order” franchise had multiple cast changes as well, and all hung in.
    Lisa Edelstein’s Cuddy (IMHO) was a major character in “House”; she kept House in check. When Edelstein left after season seven, the show suffered, and lasted just one more season.

  4. Should be Woody Boyd, not “Woody Boys”

    Too bad, I really liked Eddie and Carla together.

    You should do a piece about how Kelsey Grammar was only supposed to be on 3 episodes, and they partially kept him on to annoy Shelly Long, who was notoriously difficult on the set. I believe this has been confirmed by Grammar.

    Heh, you could also do a piece on how Mork & Mindy’s supporting cast changed each season for all four of its seasons.

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